I agree with your statement that many people just assume that we're currently living in a maximally liberal society. However, I think it's a fair empirical question to ask whether liberalism is the most effective way to combat (let's say) Critical Social Justice: Do the illiberal anti-CRT laws in Florida inspire other states to draft equally illiberal pro-CRT laws, or do they remind leftists that free speech advocacy isn't inherently right-wing?
It is a fair empirical question to ask whether liberalism is the most effective way to combat CSJ and I think the answer is no . CSJ isn't an issue in countries that don't allow that most liberal principle: freedom of belief and speech.
If the primary aim is to combat CSJ, then pushing it out with another illiberal belief system could well be more effective than truing to get a consensus the 'live and let live' approach of liberalism.
If the primary aim is to live in a liberal society, I do not see any other way to achieve that than liberalism.
I know that you were using CSJ as just one example of an illiberal belief system we might need to combat and so presumably consistently oppose them as I do, but I don't see how anything but liberalism can combat them rather than replace one with another.
To combat CSJ, we can either get more strongly liberal and properly& consistently protect people's rights to hold and express their own vies and not to have others' imposed on them or we can give up on living in a society that does that and put our strength behind whichever illiberal belief system we dislike least that also has the potential to squash out the ones we dislike most. There isn't a middle way. Any dominant cultural force will either allow people freedom of belief and speech and be liberal or it won't and be illiberal.
Looking at the postliberals at the moment and I have said they are not necessarily illiberal because I know what their values are, but not whether, if they gain cultural dominance, they will allow me to continue believing, expressing and living by my own values or penalise me for doing so. If it is the former, I would consider them liberal and if the latter, illiberal.
I'm afraid I do not know how other states are responding to anti-CRT bills in Florida as I have not been keeping up with US politics as I used to but I strongly suspect that they are more likely to go down the 'counter-illiberalism' route than the 'apply liberal principles consistently' route. Which is why I am so depressed about the future of liberalism.
Yeah, I agree that replacing one illiberal system with another illiberal system is very much suboptimal. I'd like to live in a liberal society, even if that means that we're more exposed to CSJ ideas.
However, if someone else were to argue that one type of illiberalism is much worse than the other type, I'm not sure how to counter that argument. Perhaps one could say that we haven't seen the excesses of the other side yet, but that argument feels weak.
I agree with your statement that many people just assume that we're currently living in a maximally liberal society. However, I think it's a fair empirical question to ask whether liberalism is the most effective way to combat (let's say) Critical Social Justice: Do the illiberal anti-CRT laws in Florida inspire other states to draft equally illiberal pro-CRT laws, or do they remind leftists that free speech advocacy isn't inherently right-wing?
It is a fair empirical question to ask whether liberalism is the most effective way to combat CSJ and I think the answer is no . CSJ isn't an issue in countries that don't allow that most liberal principle: freedom of belief and speech.
If the primary aim is to combat CSJ, then pushing it out with another illiberal belief system could well be more effective than truing to get a consensus the 'live and let live' approach of liberalism.
If the primary aim is to live in a liberal society, I do not see any other way to achieve that than liberalism.
I know that you were using CSJ as just one example of an illiberal belief system we might need to combat and so presumably consistently oppose them as I do, but I don't see how anything but liberalism can combat them rather than replace one with another.
To combat CSJ, we can either get more strongly liberal and properly& consistently protect people's rights to hold and express their own vies and not to have others' imposed on them or we can give up on living in a society that does that and put our strength behind whichever illiberal belief system we dislike least that also has the potential to squash out the ones we dislike most. There isn't a middle way. Any dominant cultural force will either allow people freedom of belief and speech and be liberal or it won't and be illiberal.
Looking at the postliberals at the moment and I have said they are not necessarily illiberal because I know what their values are, but not whether, if they gain cultural dominance, they will allow me to continue believing, expressing and living by my own values or penalise me for doing so. If it is the former, I would consider them liberal and if the latter, illiberal.
I'm afraid I do not know how other states are responding to anti-CRT bills in Florida as I have not been keeping up with US politics as I used to but I strongly suspect that they are more likely to go down the 'counter-illiberalism' route than the 'apply liberal principles consistently' route. Which is why I am so depressed about the future of liberalism.
Yeah, I agree that replacing one illiberal system with another illiberal system is very much suboptimal. I'd like to live in a liberal society, even if that means that we're more exposed to CSJ ideas.
However, if someone else were to argue that one type of illiberalism is much worse than the other type, I'm not sure how to counter that argument. Perhaps one could say that we haven't seen the excesses of the other side yet, but that argument feels weak.
I am just finishing up another essay inspired by this question!
Helen, when you're not busy, will you please run for president in America? Thanks in advance.
:) I don't think that's allowed. Also, scary!